Ramblings' Journal

Ok, now I'm really confused......

White gay men discriminating against black gay men? Gays discriminating against other gays?

We can finally have gay black men being able to protest against gay marriage and the white gay man keeps them down! This is EXACTLY what Malcolm X was talking about.

Or something.

My head is spinning.

Mike!! They all done found out about the Underground Railroad!!

Oh, boy do the slaves got some decisions to make. Do I stay or do I go?

Mmm........and so much for marryin my cousin - looks like this Man & Woman ONLY stuff is gonna survive. She is too fine.

(I'm just kidding St. Peter.)

I'm not shocked. Gay activists do not speak for the entire gay community. I have heard a few non-activist gay people speak out against same sex marriage. They're just not screaming it from the top of their lungs, is all.

This is NOT a shock to me. As a straight, African American female with gay, African American friends (and by the way I live in San Francisco), I can tell you that the white gay community is EXTREMELY RACISTS and NON INCLUSIVE.

Everything that they accuse everyone else of, intolerant, ignorant, etc., they are exactly the same way!

If I were a Black gay, I would NOT support their struggle.

Believe me, these people are very discriminatory and racists.

For example: I went to see Alvin Ailey earlier this year. A white lesbian couple was standing near a food/beverage line during the intermission.

Two black girls (probably ages 12 and 13) politely asked, if they were standing in the actual line.

The lesbian rudely replied, "Duh! Does it look like I'm standing in line."

The girls were very sweet and just moved forward in the line.

But I'm observing this and thinking to myself, "These white lesbians are here at a Black event, seeing a world famous Black dance company and are surrounded by Black people and REFUSE to be polite for 2 hours!

This really infuriated me because it's only one of the many examples of how racists the white gay community is.

I say, "kudos" to the African American gays for not pushing the white gay agenda, which they know, in the long run, will not benefit them!

Hey, did you hear on Rush today that ALBRC, endorsed Bush today? That's awesome, what is that 3, maybe 4 more black votes. We in the GOP need to do more.

Well, I feel sorry for you Natacha. You don't seem to have many white friends, so maybe that's part of your problem. As a white lesbian, my partner and I have PLENT of friends that are of other racial and cultural back grounds; hell my partner is hispanic! So to say that all white gays and lesbians are prejudiuce is not a fair or true statement. I live in Arizona and there is a diverse culture here. To walk around with blinders on is an idiotic thing to do and it seems to me that your blinders don't like white folks.

It is sad to see our community fighting amongest themselves over such silly issues. We all need to stand together because that is the only was our voice can be heard. You can't honestly tell me there are NO Afican Americans, Spanish Americans, Asian Americans, ect...would EVER wnat to be united with their gay/lesbian partner in a union that would seal their love forever. Thst is just NOT TRUE! Everyone wants to be happy, everyone wants to be treated equally. If you really want to get down to it, as a college student I don't qualify for most grants and scholarships because I am NOT enough of a minority! People would be up in arms if we had the White Rednecks Scholarship fund "Because inbreeding minds are a terrible thing to waste". Yet there is an organization called The United Negro College Fund for African American students.

Turn about is fair play people. Not all white people are prejudice, and I happen to be one of them. Equality for all is what I say!

I find it difficult to believe that a group of black gay men are supporting Bush. My reaction was the same when the Log Cabin group made the same announcement. Whether or not they are in favour of gay marriage is one issue but to support Bush is completely off the wall. The man is not good for the country.

Just because he apointed Sneed to a position, he seems to feel to cement his status by endorsing Bush. I wonder how long he will have that position once the election is over.

It is obvious that Sneed is a pal of W..............................nuff said

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Gay blacks are discriminated by gay whites. Gay Christians are discriminated by gay non-christians. Gay conservatives are discriminated by gay liberals. Gay poor are discriminated by gay rich. Gay HIV+ are discriminated by gay HIV-. Gay singles are discriminated by gay couples. Lesbians are discriminated by gay men. Welcome to Dallas. Usually the problems of the city, county or DISD are all race based as the blacks, latino and whites fight for power.

There is one thing that the Abe Lincoln Black Republican Caucus got right. Fight the other battles of non-discrimination, partner benifits, don't ask don't tell before marriage.

1)The majority of gay community doesn't act like they deserve marriage. 2)Texas will be the last state to pass gay marriage laws and I have to find a husband first. 3)Time will change view because of demographics. The young are more accepting.

If you think this endorcement carries any weight at all, your political barometer needs adjustment. The history of this group has isolated them from, blacks, gays and the GOP. The only thing greater than the lack of respect for this group, is there lack of credibility.

Francis Molina

Don't you think that racism is just as alive and well in the gay community as in the rest of American society? Do you think that the San Francisco PC patrol isn't aware racial division is a huge divider among the gays and lesbians? But the fact is we divide ourselves. We can't all be gay. We have to hold the GLTB Parade.

Isn't the unity seeking redundant in dividing ourselves into 4 groups?

There is only one issue here. Marriage. It's not that I am not a 23 year old, white, ripped bodied, blond hair, green eyed male with an above average income and a college education. So stop your whining.

Natacha - did it occur to you that maybe those lesbians were just rude and have no manners? Did it occur to you as a black proud lesbian to thank the drag queens for getting this movement started? How many times have you looked down your nose at someone else not for who they were but for your perception?

Having one splinter group trying to one-up body is divisive and petulant.

Marriage rights for gays is not a political matter to be debated. Just as black rights were not a political matter, just as interracial marriage is not a political matter.

Marriage in the United States is a legal term. Regardless of all its other connotations, it is a legal term that confers legal and enforceable rights, responsibilities and privileges to American Citizens. As such it must be applies with all its privileges and responsibilities to all Americans.

The constitution guarantees freedom for all. There is no extra or special rights section reserved for “Straight Americans”… well, that is unless the current administration has its way.

And there is the problem the Lincoln caucus’s point.

Just a few observations--racism is alive and well in every community in this country

It's really disturbing to see people paint other groups with such a wide brush--that's pretty close-minded as well

I didnt' realize that Alvin Ailey Dance Company is exclusively a black event. Maybe they should have posted signs.

I went to see the Lion King last night--the villian was played by a white actor. Does that make it a racist musical? Blacks are the heroes and whites are the bad guys?

I think it must be poor Natacha's time of the month. I'm half of a black/white mixed race gay couple and my sister's a lesbian so let me wade into both points.

On the racism point: I hate to tell you sweetie but whites don't hold an exclusive on racist attitudes and behavior. I've seen racism among blacks against other races and you have too, haven't you Natacha? If you say that you haven't, then you're simply in denial.

In fact I've also seen plenty of black men who only date within their race - just like some white men, some asian men, some latin men date only within their races. It's called "choice". Personally I think they're shortchanging themselves, but that's their perogative.

Regarding the two lesbians, I concur with the post above that I wasn't aware that Alvin Ailey Dance performances were a black-only event. Did they annoint you with the authority to exclude people who you don't feel belong in their shows? Does "black-only" also apply to shows by Lenny Kravitz, the Isley Brothers, BB King, Stevie Wonder, etc.? Does it apply to reruns of the black television shows too?

If the two women were rude, perhaps that's just the two of them. Maybe they'd had a fight and they were in a mood. Perhaps it was even THEIR time of the month and their hormones were raging. Are you always polite in every situation Natacha? Do you always exude sweetness and light? Somehow I doubt it.

Take a pill and calm down girl! Jeez!!! You'll work yourself into a heart attack if you keep this anger up!

Follow the money. Who is funding this group? They don't speak for all black gay republican men - who after all are individuals and come to different conclusions about whether to support Bush - as to white gay men.

Not surprising Rush is going with this story.

Sure there's some white gays that are racist. There are also straight blacks that are anti-gay. There are others who look beyond that.

People are individuals - and this group does the same sort of race baiting that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do.

Sneed who runs this group, is ED of an aids organization - and there are big financial problems with it - and whenever confronted with this, he throws up the race card.

In my view, it's racist to have a lower standard for blacks than you do for whites - because you want to avoid being painted as racist.

This is NOT a shock to me. As a straight, African American female with gay, African American friends (and by the way I live in San Francisco), I can tell you that the white gay community is EXTREMELY RACISTS and NON INCLUSIVE.

Everything that they accuse everyone else of, intolerant, ignorant, etc., they are exactly the same way!

If I were a Black gay, I would NOT support their struggle.

Believe me, these people are very discriminatory and racists.

======================================================================================================================================================

Natacha in SF: you are absolutely right that the white gay community (especially the white gay MALE community) is incredibly racist, among other things.

And I certainly don't blame them for not *lending their support* to the mainly white leadership of the marriage equality struggle.

But it's not logical to cut off your nose to spite your face... and it's CERTAINLY not logical to endorse Bush! Bush is all things against blacks... why on earth would they choose to endorse him because they experienced racism from the white gay community? Point "A1" does not lead to point "V3"!

If anything they could have chosen to endorse some third party. The Libertarians, the Greens, the Socialists, depending on the political leanings of the entire 4 members of this entire group.

Endorsing Bush, I think was a ploy for attention from the media, and what do you know? It worked. Just goes to show how much brains the media has. Now, instead of having 8 more black gay people across America voting for Bush, as would have been the result of this endorsement had the gay press ignored it, maybe 154 people across America who would originally have voted for Kerry or stayed home, will now vote for Bush.

Not that it makes anything more than a peripheral difference, but it's wise for:

a) this marginal group, now that they've got some attention, if they are really complaining about Kerry, to endorse a different party like the Greens...

and for

b) the gay press to ignore these displays of whining for attention in future.

Is the racialism and exclusion of the white gay community a problem? Absolutely? Is endorsing and voting for Bush going to solve it? Hardly. It will only perpetuate the very same problem that massa's field hands are complaining about...

Hey ya, I totally agree with Homo Ffectionals comments, and want to add my two cents. Yes, the gay (white male) community is very exclusive at the least, racist and sexist at its very worst, but no more so than the heterosexual community. Could I similarly say that ethnic communities (one to which I belong to) are really sexist and homophobic? What is this word community anyway? Just because I fuck guys does that mean you're my brother (as in the fraternity sense)? Identity needs to be analysed in the context of class if you ever discuss the political minefield of discrimination, or we run into the trouble of the failed hope that just because we have gays, blacks, and women in the hallrooms of power that one day the barriers of discrimination will suddenly breakdown. Look at Margaret Thatcher, what was her contribution to women's rights other than to enjoy the rights that were won by working-class women? As advocated by the Abe Lincoln Black Republicans, this is the same situation we can see with the appointments made by the Republican Bush Administration of Colin Powell and Condi Rice among others. Just because they are now in high power administrative roles does not mean they are helping the movement towards acceptance and the end of discrimination, but rather are simply enjoying the benefits that blood, sweat and tears of millions fought for. Tolerance and the ending of oppression cannot be won by any one person, but is the responsibility for all. No war between races, no peace between classes.

I think it is wrong to campaign against gay marriage. Yet, i am not at all happy with gay activists, black or white. A true campaign for gay rights promotes the rights, privileges, and autonomy of each sexual orientation. The gay movement focuses on discrimination from men, mainly heterosexual men. That needs to be just one of the foci.Gay men are discriminated against also by lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual, and transgender women. Lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual, and transgender women engage in heinous anti gay male activity in the name of solidarity. They force their way into gay male erotica: adult magazines and videos. The Advocate started as a gay male magazine. Leaving heterosexual men, women bare their breasts at rallies with gay men. Gay men find that completely disgusting. Gay men are forced to be paired with women in every gay organization. What is the purpose in calling it gay? It is not enough just to say we are against heterosexual oppression, only meaning men---anti gay male activities by women gets much less action. Men who are exclusively attracted to men must stop getting always joined with women under all circumstances. Gay male strippers don't want women putting money in their clothing at gay bars. New York and New Jersey are allies, but only citizens of New York get to vote in New York. Women should not be allowed to vote in gay male activities or it is just as bad as discrimination from heterosexuals. Gay men need to be able to discuss their own issues away from bisexuals, lesbians, heterosexuals, and transgender people, then and only then can they come together with others as allies. No more glbt in absolutely everything. That way gay men can deal with internal issues, like race.